I think you're sincere in your search for a solution, even accepting the very questionable morality of uprooting a citizenry from its homeland and culture.
There are many holes in your solution...as there are with any approach to this unsolvable matter.
For one, you assume that Netanyahu wants to end this war, when the incentive structure is a polar opposite. Netanyahu is cementing power and revising contemporaneous history. The last thing he wants is an end to the battle.
The IDF leadership has yet to show any appreciable gains from this blitzkrieg of bombs, but we do have an endless list of children, elderly, and sick who have perished. The propaganda the IDF is spewing to absolve its humiliation for the complete intelligence failure will not be solved by a cease-fire. Again, the incentive structure for peace does not exist.
Any path to a peaceful solution would require the resignation of the Israeli extremists who have no incentive to stop fighting.
Relocating people is not a simple one-time payment, integrating different cultures is a long and challenging prospect, and the amoral nature of such a solution would itself be a non-starter for any of the wealthier Arab countries to back. Can you really fail to appreciate that African leaders would accept payment, then begin a genocide against these transplanted Palestinians? Who is going to guarantee their safety, and how? Who is going to guarantee their education, work training, jobs?
The US Congress can't even agree to pass a humanitarian aid bill for Palestine, much less fund or oversee the type of program you propose. We're not the country we were after WWII, we are in no position to dictate terms.
I don't know what the answer is, and I don't know how any peace is achievable in the long-term, but I do know that nothing that Israel is currently doing will lead to peace.
And no. I do not think the US would ever actually do this. This post was simply to provide an example of a feasible way forward. A year ago I proposed (privately) a peaceful solution to the Ukraine conflict that provides a win for both sides. I tried it out with Chat GPT and it *hated* it, got all testy and broke off dialog and it is a goddam computer program. (Obviously it didn't *feel* anything, but, based on its replies and then abruptly ending the exchange one would interpret it this way if it had been a person at the other end of the keyboard).
Look, in 1989 Dave Barry in his annual year in review had this:
News item: Palestinian and Israeli leaders announce that going forward Mideast peace plans will be rejected in batches of ten to save time.
34 years ago it was already so crystal clear that there was never, ever going to be peace that comedians would making jokes about it. It has long since gone from farce to tragedy. My parents met in Ammon Jordan during the Suez crisis. It was already an intractable problem then. They were in their twenties. Now both are long dead and I'm retired and *nothing* has changed, expect a new radical form of religion has emerged. Hama is a religious military order like ISIS or the Teutonic Knights. Crusade is not a part of Judaism, but neither was it part of Christianity, but Christians got there. And the Jews will too. Imagine what Hamas would doto the Israelis if they had Israel's weaponry. Well that is what the Jewish version of Jihad/Crusade WILL do to the Palestinians. Actual literal genocide. That is the end game where this is going, it might be many years away, but they will get there.
The region is no longer useful to us, we can leave. And once we do so, what motivation do we have to still be nice to the Saudis or keep kissing Israeli ass? The US is *still* the reigning hegemon, at least in the Western end of Eurasia. And we are *not* a nice country. We incinerated entire cities full of civilians and nuked two more, all within living memory. More recently we invaded Iraq for no apparent reason.
The assumption I am making is that the religious fanatics are a fraction of the population, say 25%, or 1.3 million out of 5.2 million Palestinians. The 3.9 million who are not fanatics take the "severance package" offered and depart. The remaining 1.3 million are sent to Gaza, if they aren't already there, by force if necessary.
The West Bank is annexed by Israel. This is a big win for them and worth the cost of their contribution. Gaza becomes an independent Palestinian state filled with religious fanatics. Next time they start a war, there will be no innocent civilians, it is all jihadists. Israel has already vowed to eradicate all of them, what I propose is a way to separate those who are not jihadists before they become collateral damage.
“But they will embed themselves in the civilian population requiring Israeli soldiers to butcher many Palestinian civilians in the process of achieving that objective.”
“Required”??!
This is a thoughtless argument. Yes, by hiding among civilians they will make it much, much harder for Israel to get them. Who ever said ending terrorists would be easy?
“Oh, look. He’s using a dozen schoolchildren as human shields. Oh well, guess I’ll just have to kill the kids, too.” is not an argument that should be blindly accepted.
Do you actually think they will be able to kill every single member of Hamas without also killing a great many civilians? To get all embedded terrorists will require going door to door, entering buildings and rooting Hama fighters out. Obviously, the Hama fighters will fire at the Israeli soldiers trying to enter and the soldiers will return fire. Plenty of civilians will be killed in the crossfire no matter how careful the Israelis are. You can be sure that for every fighter they kill multiple civilians will die. So yes, by the time they finish the death toll will be immense. Are you seriously questioning this?
Emil Kirkegaard Palestinians in your country: what to expect?
October 13, 2023/7 Comments/in General/by Kevin MacDonald
Emil Kirkegaard has posted on a natural experiment in Denmark with Palestinian refugees. Excerpt:
With a war looming and probably lots of Palestinian refugee applications on the horizon, I thought it would be wise to summarize what we have so far about them. The horrors of war aside, how good immigrants are the Palestinians? Denmark decided to try it out in 1992 by giving 321 rejected Palestinian asylum seekers extraordinary residence permits, granted directly by parliament by a special law (Danish Wikipedia Palæstinenserloven). These people have been followed since then to see how this experiment went. Here’s the data for the 2019 follow-up written about here:
• Of the 321 who were given asylum 270 are still residing in Denmark, meaning the rest either left or are dead.
• Of the 321, 204 (64%) have received a serious find or jail time for crime, with 71 of them being given jail time.
• A very large proportion of them are receiving some kind of welfare especially the “early pension” (førtidspension) usually given to people with severe physical or mental issues (e.g. handicapped), but also used for immigrants who are basically useless on the job market for whatever reason.
• Of their 999 children, so far 34% are convicted for serious crime and some large chunk are already on welfare.
Note that some of the numbers are slightly too low because of the ones who have left.
Why so bad outcomes? Well, let’s summarize the existing intelligence studies of them.
• BAKHIET, Salaheldin Farah Attallah et LYNN, Richard. A study of the IQ in Palestine. Intelligence, 2014, vol. 47, p. 10-11.
The Coloured Progressive Matrices (CPM) was standardized in Palestine in 2011 on a sample of 257 children aged 6.0 to 11.5 years, tested individually. The sample obtained a British IQ of 85.
I didn't suggest European countries should take any emigrants. I suggested Arab countries. Their IQs are about what you would expect (83) for their level of development, about where Americas were 50-60 years ago. Palestinians should fit in.
I think you're sincere in your search for a solution, even accepting the very questionable morality of uprooting a citizenry from its homeland and culture.
There are many holes in your solution...as there are with any approach to this unsolvable matter.
For one, you assume that Netanyahu wants to end this war, when the incentive structure is a polar opposite. Netanyahu is cementing power and revising contemporaneous history. The last thing he wants is an end to the battle.
The IDF leadership has yet to show any appreciable gains from this blitzkrieg of bombs, but we do have an endless list of children, elderly, and sick who have perished. The propaganda the IDF is spewing to absolve its humiliation for the complete intelligence failure will not be solved by a cease-fire. Again, the incentive structure for peace does not exist.
Any path to a peaceful solution would require the resignation of the Israeli extremists who have no incentive to stop fighting.
Relocating people is not a simple one-time payment, integrating different cultures is a long and challenging prospect, and the amoral nature of such a solution would itself be a non-starter for any of the wealthier Arab countries to back. Can you really fail to appreciate that African leaders would accept payment, then begin a genocide against these transplanted Palestinians? Who is going to guarantee their safety, and how? Who is going to guarantee their education, work training, jobs?
The US Congress can't even agree to pass a humanitarian aid bill for Palestine, much less fund or oversee the type of program you propose. We're not the country we were after WWII, we are in no position to dictate terms.
I don't know what the answer is, and I don't know how any peace is achievable in the long-term, but I do know that nothing that Israel is currently doing will lead to peace.
And no. I do not think the US would ever actually do this. This post was simply to provide an example of a feasible way forward. A year ago I proposed (privately) a peaceful solution to the Ukraine conflict that provides a win for both sides. I tried it out with Chat GPT and it *hated* it, got all testy and broke off dialog and it is a goddam computer program. (Obviously it didn't *feel* anything, but, based on its replies and then abruptly ending the exchange one would interpret it this way if it had been a person at the other end of the keyboard).
Look, in 1989 Dave Barry in his annual year in review had this:
News item: Palestinian and Israeli leaders announce that going forward Mideast peace plans will be rejected in batches of ten to save time.
34 years ago it was already so crystal clear that there was never, ever going to be peace that comedians would making jokes about it. It has long since gone from farce to tragedy. My parents met in Ammon Jordan during the Suez crisis. It was already an intractable problem then. They were in their twenties. Now both are long dead and I'm retired and *nothing* has changed, expect a new radical form of religion has emerged. Hama is a religious military order like ISIS or the Teutonic Knights. Crusade is not a part of Judaism, but neither was it part of Christianity, but Christians got there. And the Jews will too. Imagine what Hamas would doto the Israelis if they had Israel's weaponry. Well that is what the Jewish version of Jihad/Crusade WILL do to the Palestinians. Actual literal genocide. That is the end game where this is going, it might be many years away, but they will get there.
The region is no longer useful to us, we can leave. And once we do so, what motivation do we have to still be nice to the Saudis or keep kissing Israeli ass? The US is *still* the reigning hegemon, at least in the Western end of Eurasia. And we are *not* a nice country. We incinerated entire cities full of civilians and nuked two more, all within living memory. More recently we invaded Iraq for no apparent reason.
It doesn't. They will refuse to go.
The assumption I am making is that the religious fanatics are a fraction of the population, say 25%, or 1.3 million out of 5.2 million Palestinians. The 3.9 million who are not fanatics take the "severance package" offered and depart. The remaining 1.3 million are sent to Gaza, if they aren't already there, by force if necessary.
The West Bank is annexed by Israel. This is a big win for them and worth the cost of their contribution. Gaza becomes an independent Palestinian state filled with religious fanatics. Next time they start a war, there will be no innocent civilians, it is all jihadists. Israel has already vowed to eradicate all of them, what I propose is a way to separate those who are not jihadists before they become collateral damage.
Since when has throwing money at religious fanatics ever stopped them?
“But they will embed themselves in the civilian population requiring Israeli soldiers to butcher many Palestinian civilians in the process of achieving that objective.”
“Required”??!
This is a thoughtless argument. Yes, by hiding among civilians they will make it much, much harder for Israel to get them. Who ever said ending terrorists would be easy?
“Oh, look. He’s using a dozen schoolchildren as human shields. Oh well, guess I’ll just have to kill the kids, too.” is not an argument that should be blindly accepted.
Do you actually think they will be able to kill every single member of Hamas without also killing a great many civilians? To get all embedded terrorists will require going door to door, entering buildings and rooting Hama fighters out. Obviously, the Hama fighters will fire at the Israeli soldiers trying to enter and the soldiers will return fire. Plenty of civilians will be killed in the crossfire no matter how careful the Israelis are. You can be sure that for every fighter they kill multiple civilians will die. So yes, by the time they finish the death toll will be immense. Are you seriously questioning this?
this a nice summary of the palestinian question
https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/do-arab-states-support-palestine
https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/the-gaza-trap
and this is interesting
Emil Kirkegaard Palestinians in your country: what to expect?
October 13, 2023/7 Comments/in General/by Kevin MacDonald
Emil Kirkegaard has posted on a natural experiment in Denmark with Palestinian refugees. Excerpt:
With a war looming and probably lots of Palestinian refugee applications on the horizon, I thought it would be wise to summarize what we have so far about them. The horrors of war aside, how good immigrants are the Palestinians? Denmark decided to try it out in 1992 by giving 321 rejected Palestinian asylum seekers extraordinary residence permits, granted directly by parliament by a special law (Danish Wikipedia Palæstinenserloven). These people have been followed since then to see how this experiment went. Here’s the data for the 2019 follow-up written about here:
• Of the 321 who were given asylum 270 are still residing in Denmark, meaning the rest either left or are dead.
• Of the 321, 204 (64%) have received a serious find or jail time for crime, with 71 of them being given jail time.
• A very large proportion of them are receiving some kind of welfare especially the “early pension” (førtidspension) usually given to people with severe physical or mental issues (e.g. handicapped), but also used for immigrants who are basically useless on the job market for whatever reason.
• Of their 999 children, so far 34% are convicted for serious crime and some large chunk are already on welfare.
Note that some of the numbers are slightly too low because of the ones who have left.
Why so bad outcomes? Well, let’s summarize the existing intelligence studies of them.
• BAKHIET, Salaheldin Farah Attallah et LYNN, Richard. A study of the IQ in Palestine. Intelligence, 2014, vol. 47, p. 10-11.
The Coloured Progressive Matrices (CPM) was standardized in Palestine in 2011 on a sample of 257 children aged 6.0 to 11.5 years, tested individually. The sample obtained a British IQ of 85.
I didn't suggest European countries should take any emigrants. I suggested Arab countries. Their IQs are about what you would expect (83) for their level of development, about where Americas were 50-60 years ago. Palestinians should fit in.
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php